‘A performance of communication.’ - Copeland James
With such a melting pot of influences encouraging art and genre barriers increasingly blurring, it becomes harder for an artist to create a truly timeless piece of work. And yet, an artist who released their debut album in 2023 has done just that. Let me tell you about Copeland James and their record ‘Small Talk’.
Part of what makes Copeland James and their music so special is their patience in getting to this point. Based in Bloomington, Indiana, James is a classically trained flautist, studying the art in college and expanding their sound to play live using a keytar. Their music is anchored with piano, as heard in their debut single ‘Restless In Rome’, which we wrote about back in December 2022.
James’ Bandcamp shows a glimpse of their pre-album music, with a re-recording of an earlier track called ‘Dear,’ and a demo entitled ‘Garden of Secrets and Goodbyes’, both released in 2022. Though their available music is the very cream of the crop, Copeland has actually written dozens of songs, as said when we asked them last year:
‘I love a good list, and I keep one in a journal of all the songs I’ve ever finished writing. It was at 76 the last time I updated it!’ – Copeland James Conquers Rome (Moths and Giraffes, December 2022)
In early 2023, Copeland recorded a short set for Tiny Dorm Concerts, playing their two current singles from ‘Small Talk’ as well as two forthcoming album tracks. In the Spring, Copeland joined the line-up for the first annual Charitindie live stream, curated and presented by songwriter and producer Cayt W. Closing out the three-hour plus stream was a three-song set from James, including ‘Rome’, with two as yet unreleased tracks. This set showcased Copeland’s solo performing style and their evolving sound with the synthwave-esque ‘Glendora’.
We caught up with Copeland just as they were releasing their debut album back in June to celebrate the music of Taylor Swift. In that piece, we asked fifteen artists what their favourite Taylor Swift song is and why. Their choice was unconventional, going for a long dormant vault track from ‘Red’:
“Recently, I really connected with her song ‘Nothing New.’ I think 22 is a fraught age—you are still so young, young enough that you maybe haven’t fully settled into adulthood yet, but you are no longer seen as shiny and new by a society that treats youth as currency. It’s unlikely that anyone will find it impressive that you do xyz at ‘such a young age’ anymore.” – Taylor Swift: The Songs That Impacted Fifteen Artists (Moths and Giraffes, June 2023)
Copeland James and their band, live at the Bloomington Blockhouse, 24th June 2023
Celebrating the release of ‘Small Talk’, Copeland James played a rare full band gig. Featuring a three-piece string section, James performed the album in its entirety at Bloomington’s Blockhouse. In October they continued playing live in their hometown, making a special guest appearance with a visiting Pacing, who we quoted as saying, ‘I wish Copeland could play every Pacing gig with me for the rest of my life.’ She went on to call Copeland, ‘a fuckin magical performer.’ – The Reality of Pacing (Moths and Giraffes, November 2023).
That same week, Copeland would travel to Nashville, Tennessee to share the stage with another Charitindie and M&G alumna, Uncle Emmington for a cosy gig at Cafe Ma’kai. On the gig, Everyone’s Favourite Uncle had this to say:
‘Sharing the stage with Copeland was amazing, and I'm so happy I finally got the chance to meet them in person! During my set I was so nervous, but was able to feel more at ease because of their enthusiasm and support. Their set was great, and I loved being able to hear some of my absolute favorite songs live and sing along!’
Copeland James and Uncle Emmington at Cafe Ma’kai, Nashville, 8th October 2023
In the wake of wanting to write about ‘Small Talk’, we asked Copeland James to send us a press release and we’re proud to say they wrote one especially for Moths and Giraffes, written in both the first and third person. Across three pages and a true insight into their mind, it contained helpful anecdotes such as:
‘Copeland studied classical flute in college but didn’t actually put any flute on their album for some reason.’
and
‘I wrote so much of this album so long ago that I honestly don’t remember how writing much of it felt.’
Luckily for us, Copeland James also answers our Q&A at the end of this article. But first we’ll explore the eight-track ‘Small Talk’, an album that spawned four singles, two music videos, and a whole lot of praise from their fans.
‘Let's go exploring in a part of town we've been a hundred times, but never really took the time to look at…’
The opening track to ‘Small Talk’ and its third single is ‘Darling We’ve Got Time’. Is there a more timeless concept than whiling away the day with one of your favourite people? Here the sound is realised with the essential combination of drummer Max DiBella and those folky electric guitar lines from Jimmy Diskin. Bassist Kellie McGrew is also the song’s mix and mastering engineer, with co-production by Daniel Nieberg and Copeland. Instead of traditional piano from James, Nieberg opts for the electric variation, slightly distorting its way through a solo, and softly accompanying the rest of the band through an upbeat shuffle.
‘It's midday and we've got no place to be, our worries live tomorrow so come stay awhile with me.’
It's impossible not to smile when hearing this song. One of our favourite lines is, ‘The most boring path from A to B is a straight line,’ which perfectly sums up this lyric and concept. You’ve got time to kill with someone you like to spend time with, all you have to do is enjoy it.
Based on designs by Etsy store Dot Pebbles Knits and a concept by India Rose Crawford, Copeland James knitted two characters that have their own adventure for the song’s music video. Made using stop-motion, the frog and the bunny escape the confines of Copeland’s shelves and explore the world outside together. The best moments are the most human, when frog gives bunny the purple petal, and then bunny snuggles into frog, or the pair sitting on a bench and leaning into each other. Bonus points are awarded for the inclusion of Brum, a programme that was built around just enjoying the day, the two speeding away in the car at the video’s conclusion.
‘Do you wanna be a mirror? Do you wanna show me who I am?’
The second single, ‘Best Friend’ has piano as its constant presence and a lyric built on no fewer than eighteen questions, inviting the listener into the life of Copeland James. It’s the song’s ninth question, ‘Do you wanna show me what you've been hiding away?’ that kicks off the chorus. There’s a closeness in Copeland’s lyric that perhaps offers more than just friendship. In their press release, they ponder the association:
‘I remember giggling to myself about how so many of the songs sounded like romantic love songs, but really they were about my friends. I remember wondering, later, if they had really been romantic love songs after all.’
The punchy drums and airy cymbal flourishes are performed by Sophie Lee, who would go on to play Copeland’s launch gig. It’s after the second chorus where we hear more of Jimmy Diskin’s contribution to Copeland’s sound, bringing forth an expression in electric guitar that elaborates on James’ piano composition. Towards the end of ‘Best Friend’, the vocal ensemble overlapping the lines, ‘There’s never a good time to say it,’ with Copeland’s chorus and soaring ‘Ooohs’ is a brilliant arrangement decision from James. Almost as if they’re demonstrating the multitude of thoughts swirling around their head regarding the song’s intended subject.
‘Restless In Rome’ is a song clearly treasured by Copeland James, the track appearing in their live sets more than the rest of the songs on the album. The first on ‘Small Talk’ to feature a trio of live strings, the song impressed us long before the album’s release. Having reviewed ‘Restless In Rome’ back in December 2022, here’s some of what we had to say at the time:
“An artist who writes from the heart, performs with playful precision, and sings from somewhere deeper still. ‘Restless In Rome’ is the perfect debut single from Copeland James, whose patience and meticulous approach in crafting this song has more than paid off, setting the standard for their work yet to come.”
As part of our Q&A for this piece, we asked Copeland what kicked off this song’s writing process and the origin of its title:
“Funnily enough, my song ‘Restless in Rome’ doesn’t actually have anything to do with Rome at all. Its origins are a little silly—I was in a music practice room late at night and I’d gotten distracted on my phone. I saw someone’s Instagram post captioned ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’ and I felt a little indignant about it. Like, hey, don’t tell me I have to put in the time and work! I want everything to suddenly change right now! The lyric ‘I wanna build Rome in a day’ sprung to mind and I started playing around with it. I was taking a piano class at the time and learning the accompaniment for the Bach Flute Sonata in Eb Major, and without realizing it at the time, I wrote a piano part for Restless that was inspired by it; it has a very similar shape. You heard it here first: Copeland James ripped off Bach. Once I wrote the first line of the chorus, ‘Restless stories beg to be written,’ that line merged with the first to become ‘Restless in Rome.’ I loved the alliteration of it, and it stuck.”
To return to Copeland’s press release for a moment, the title track of this album is the one that provides the foundation for everything that was to come:
“Here’s a snappy story about the album’s origins for you: this album wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for my first gynecologist appointment. While I was in that incomparably exposed state, with nothing on but a paper gown, about to be examined by a stranger, my doctor started talking about the weather. That dissonance grabbed me and the second we were done I typed the line ‘ask me ‘bout the weather, while I’m parting with my dress’ into the notes app on my phone. ‘That sounds like a line about a weird hook up,’ I thought. ‘I’ll probably have an experience like that where this line could come in handy.’ And I did.”
An excerpt of Copeland James’ diary, dated January 26th, 2018
More than just the foundation for the conversational songs that would be written for the album, ‘Small Talk’ is some of Copeland’s very best writing on this record. The string trio weaves around Copeland’s piano introduction, their first words are distant, like thoughts in a daydream, ‘Where do I look? What do I do with my hands?’ describing the feelings of awkwardness small talking can bring. Then it’s followed by James’ lyric conjured in a vulnerable moment.
Having released an earlier version of ‘Small Talk’ in 2021, the album version is undeniably an improvement with a Copeland James that is more sure of themselves, tightening their arrangement and gently increasing the tempo. By comparison, their first take seems shy and self-conscious. In 2023, Copeland is leading the conversation.
‘It's just Small Talk. Mysteries in our heads, leaving it all unsaid. But it's bad luck, we should leave this deathbed, but we'll keep going instead.’
The attention to detail in the string arrangements from Daniel Nieberg not only open ‘Small Talk’ out, they also interact with Copeland’s composition as if it were alive and breathing. Pizzicato accents the piano between verses, continuing to highlight certain words within them, and then washing the chorus with bursts of chords.
The peak of this is when all the other instruments are stripped out to leave Copeland singing and playing alone with the string trio, with cello performed by Ethan Clay, viola from Maeve Whelan and violin by Yoav Hayut. Like ‘Best Friend’, Copeland layers their vocals, ‘I dare you to ask me what I’m thinking,’ with Hayut building a crescendo to bring the rest of the band back in.
The music video, directed by Simone Hile-Bassett, is its own art piece. It features props made by Copeland, Kailey Everhart and Em Singleton, weather headpieces worn by James and their love interest Drew Demora. Unlike the singular approach of ‘Darling We’ve Got Time’, the video for ‘Small Talk’ utilises multiple disciplines to create a vivid interpretation of Copeland’s composition. These include specially prepared animations by Hel Bassett, front projections and green screen, that when combined with the more direct interactions between Demora and James, create a song that is truly brought to life. Its lyricism is lifted off the page and splashed onto the screen in colour, light and feeling.
‘I don’t have to say I care, you know I do.’
With so much given to the album’s title track, ‘Overboard’ takes a more simplistic approach, focusing on Copeland’s piano and vocal performance. But like the spaced-out intro to the previous song, this one maintains its dreamlike air throughout. This is in part due to the atmospheric vocal layers by Ellie Kashinn that float above and around the song, like you’re watching the conversation leaning out of an open window. With reverb and panning comes distance and depth to ‘Overboard’, all the product of Kellie McGrew’s dynamic interpretation of the mix.
‘There’s a lot on the mind that we withhold.’
There is so much heart to Copeland’s music, and ‘Overboard’ demonstrates that perfectly. ‘And now we’re hanging by the hinges, do you think it’s getting old?’ and then as if Copeland receives a response inaudible to the listener, James quietly says, ‘Ok.’ These being the final words in the song, the following vocal and piano interplay is the sound of somebody walking away.
Speaking at their launch gig back in June, Copeland introduced the next song from ‘Small Talk’:
‘Does March 13th, 2020 ring a bell for anybody? Ok, so now imagine that on that day, you get broken up with, and your ex has probably Covid and gives it to you, so then you have to isolate in your bedroom at your parent’s house, completely for two weeks. This is the kind of song you might write in that scenario.’
The mood in ‘Pillow Talk’ keeps the subtlety set by ‘Overboard’ but embodies the feeling of isolation felt by many during the pandemic, doubled-up by post-break-up introspection. ‘What if I only have so much left to give? When there’s so god damn much life left to live.’ Their lyric is the star of ‘Pillow Talk’, like a diary entry from that time. The outpouring of emotion conveys exhaustion, not only physically, but mentally also. In this song, the music maintains a neutrality, as if it were James’ design for the listener to focus more on the words.
Copeland really manages to put into these words what a low such a situation they were in feels like, especially in their final line, ‘Someone tell me what I used to be so excited about.’ In ‘Pillow Talk’, the band deals with the subject matter with a light hand, the piece finishing with a delicately clean guitar solo from Jimmy Diskin.
After performing ‘Chit-Chat’ at the Blockhouse, Copeland briefly summed up the song:
‘That’s a song about moving on and then being kind of sad that you’ve actually moved on.’
Copeland’s opening piano chord progression and melody evokes so much, like they’d put the feeling of a school summer break being over into music, or being sat on a bus alone watching the world go by. Most of all, it symbolises an emotional end, almost an epilogue. For this reason alone, ‘Chit-Chat’ is a strong contender for a fifth single or music video.
As well as the music, James packs a lot here into their lyrics. ‘We brag, say we’re over it, count up the days since we moved on,’ Max DiBella joins on drums as Copeland describes a couple-that-never-was meeting up once in a while. ‘It’s not sad, it’s just an emptiness,’ there’s a loneliness described in these words, an emotional void that’s yet to find direction.
‘We bring up our old jokes, it doesn’t mean anything.’
‘Chit-Chat’ is partly soundtracked by Daniel Nieberg’s cello composition, performed by Ethan Clay. Without the rest of the string trio, what’s left is not a mournful expression, but a muted sadness, of bruises healed but not forgotten.
‘The mind’s a funny creature, but I can’t complain. What would I do that for?’
The last song on ‘Small Talk’ is entitled ‘Sinkrony’, and Copeland calls it ‘a song about loneliness.’ Its opening piano chords could well be likened to ‘champagne problems’ by Taylor Swift, but the similarity ends there with ‘Sinkrony’ exploring bigger quandaries.
‘Why do we pretend like we don't care about the things that keep us lying up at night?’
Like ‘Best Friend’, ‘Sinkrony’ is full of questions, of Copeland looking for an answer in their writing, putting it out to the void in the hope that the void is listening. James’ lyricism centres around our human nature and how it’s full of contradictions, like the first line, ‘Why do we forget the things that we don't want to? Why do we remember the things we wanted to toss out the door?’
As with ‘Small Talk’, this song was also released in demo form more than two years before the finished version. Also like that track, the album version shows significant growth, Copeland opting to remove the more rhythmic elements from the demo arrangement, bringing further focus to the lyric.
This album was more than five years in the making, and these demos show what patience can bring to a song. In that time, Copeland’s understanding of their own work became more refined, and ‘Small Talk’ is all the better for it. One thing James certainly considered was the impact of these songs in respect of their position within the tracklisting. ‘Sinkrony’ is a perfect way to sign off on their thoughts surrounding the blurred line between friendship, romance and love.
Copeland James, live at the Bloomington Blockhouse, 24th June 2023
Copeland James has an ability to put into words what most of us have felt at one time or another. Joy in the minute details, the awkward exchanges we’ve all had, the one-in-a-million impulsive intimate moments and the harshness that follows when all the sweetness in companionship ends. Then the gradual realisation we can all love again.
This lyricism is paired perfectly with Copeland’s classical background, and the enormous performing, producing and engineering talent they surrounded themselves with in the making of this album. Then there is their careful use of consistent visual elements to bring their music to life, and their dedication to performing the work live at least once as it was intended to be heard. All these components combined showcase an utterly timeless album in ‘Small Talk’, one we can all relate to.
Continue reading for our Q&A with Copeland James. We ask about the early stages of these songs, developing the music videos, and the significance of the rotary telephone. We also talk performing the album live with a band and with Pacing in Bloomington, and Copeland’s current perspective on these songs. All this and more below!
1. At last I get to speak to you about 'Small Talk'. How does it feel to release a collection of songs that's taken years of your life to get just right?
It’s been a huge relief, and so gratifying! But it’s also like ‘oh man, what now?’ If my brain was a pie chart, this album was probably 50% for at least the last year of promotion and releases. It’s exciting to get to shift focus to newer material now, but it’s a little intimidating how open-ended it is too!
2. You released a couple of early versions of 'Small Talk' and 'Sinkrony' back in 2021, did you know then you were taking the concept further, or did you assume these were finished versions at the time?
I recorded those early versions with friends in an audio engineering program for their class projects - it was the first time I'd ever heard my songs with instruments other than piano! It was very exciting, but since they were made for class, there wasn't the time to fine-tune everything. Most of the instrumentals were totally improvised, and some of it worked perfectly but some weren’t quite there yet. We could’ve made it work, but I always knew I wanted to really polish them.
Single artworks for ‘Restless In Rome’, ‘Best Friend’, ‘Darling We’ve Got Time’ and ‘Small Talk’.
3. A recurring theme in your single and album artworks has been an old-style rotary phone, what's the significance of that?
The Small Talk phone! I’ve had that since I was a kid; my family found it in an antique store and it used to actually work. It was in storage for ages, but I grabbed it for a photoshoot back in 2021 when we started recording. I thought it’d be the album cover back when I thought the recording process would go quickly (ha ha). It was a kind of random choice at the time, but the more I thought about it, the more perfectly it fit. A lot of the album is about trying and failing to communicate, things not coming out right. A broken vintage telephone is technically a tool of communication, but it’s an outdated and ineffective one. A performance of communication.
4. The video for 'Darling We've Got Time' is such a perfect fit for that song. How long did it take to make that music video, including knitting the characters?
I got so hyper-focused on that project. The same day I had the idea for the video, I found a pattern for the rabbit and worked on it for about 8 hours straight, no breaks... I was so afraid I'd given myself carpal tunnel! I got better with pacing myself after that, but I think each creature took about 10 hours. I had never followed a pattern before, but it was a lot easier than I expected! I spent pretty much all my free time for two or three weeks after that working on the stop-motion.
5. The 'Small Talk' music video looks like it was a lot of fun to shoot, what's a particularly memorable moment from that set?
When we were shooting the scenes in the bed with the cardboard heads on, it was SO hard to lie in a way that looked natural. The heads were so bulky, and we couldn’t see anything. My friend Persephone (who did styling for the shoot) was telling us exactly how to contort ourself to make it look right on screen, and we kept bumping the cardboard heads into each other. At one point, she had us hold perfectly still in that pose while she meticulously draped the sheets over our legs to hide our feet while we chanted “hide the dogs!” So silly, so much fun.
6. If you could make another music video for the album, which song would it be and why?
Restless in Rome! It feels the most cinematic. A while back an actor named Chloe Baldwin commented on a Restless promo post saying to hit her up if I ever shot a music video for it; I went to her profile and she had these stunning videos by the ocean in pirate garb with a sword and now I regularly daydream about shooting a cinematic fantasy music video with scenic views, swords, and elaborate costumes. If only I lived near LA and had an unlimited music video budget! Also Chloe if you see this I might be a little bit in love with you.
7. 'Overboard' is heavenly with that vocal arrangement. How did that develop? Was that part of your original composition?
That’s all Ellie Kashinn! Ellie is a friend of mine and one of my favorite musicians ever. I am begging her to release her song ‘The Walk Home’ on streaming services, but for now it’s on Bandcamp. I sent her the album demos last year, and those gorgeous background vocals were what she sent back! I’m just obsessed with everything she creates.
8. The string arrangements are incredible on this record, how did it feel to be in the studio while those parts were being cut?
That was probably the most exciting part of the whole recording process. My friend Daniel Nieberg composed most of them, and we’d been workshopping the MIDI parts over zoom for a few weeks. Daniel is so talented, and so were the string players. Those parts elevated the album to a level I never could’ve taken it to alone.
9. To celebrate the release of 'Small Talk', you played your first headlining show. How did that go? Can we expect to see some more gigs before the end of the year?
That release show was the first time I got to perform my music onstage with a full band, which was AMAZING. I play a lot of gigs solo, just me and my keytar, and it’s so different to have a band backing me up. Everything has to be simplified for a solo show. But for this gig, we even had live strings! I got to live out my live show dreams, the kind of gig I dream of getting to play all the time one day. I’ll definitely have more solo shows this year, but I’m not sure when I’ll get to play with a full band next. Hopefully soon. :)
10. You played a couple of gigs with Pacing in Bloomington, what was that experience like?
It was so surreal to not only meet this amazing internet musician who lived in my phone, but share a stage with her too?? It was so chaotic and so so fun. We practiced harmonies in a bathroom with hot dogs painted on the walls an hour before the show. I got to lead the audience in claps for her song Live/Laugh/Love. Katie is so wonderful and I’m really excited to get to perform with her again. COPING WORLD TOUR!
maybe I should include a footnote that “COPING WORLD TOUR” is fake news and misinformation. if Katie and I ever play in the same location again no matter where it is I will be calling it “Coping World Tour”
‘Small Talk’ design by Ezra Awdey.
11. The release of 'Small Talk' has brought with it some merch - tell us more about what you've put together.
My friend Ezra Awdey designed an amazing T-shirt for me with the Small Talk phone on it! I have shirts, CDs, stickers, and a zine, and it’s all available on my Bandcamp. :)
12. An early version of your album included a track called 'Universe Stew' that never made it to the final tracklisting. What happened to that song? Is it likely to come out?
Oh my god, I'm afraid that that song will never see the light of day - I use it as an example of how much the album concept changed over the years! It was a very silly existential song I wrote in high school that feels so juvenile to me now. But here’s one lyric from it, as a treat:
“We’re just tiny tadpoles in this universe stew, but that’s alright, we’re okay, because I matter to you.”
13. Were there any more songs that fell by the wayside during the album's development?
SO many. Here are a few more of the scrapped song titles:
Love You Gotta Laugh
Datta
Simpler
Afterparty
Freeze Frame
An Ode to Leaving the Party (With You)
A couple of those might see the light of day someday.
14. Last time we spoke to you at Moths and Giraffes, we asked you how many songs you think you've written. In December it was 76, how many are you on now?
Honestly, I’ve lost track of that list… But I’ve only finished a few more songs though, so maybe we’ll say 82? I’ve written a ton of song snippets, but haven’t finished a lot. I’m just now getting back to writing more after focusing on recording and promoting for so long! There are a couple recent ones I’m really excited about.
15. Finally, do you feel you're better at communicating your thoughts now than the young adult that wrote these songs?
If anything, I think I got better at avoiding sticky situations. When I was a teenager writing these tracks, I was more likely to just go along with things and wind up in situations and relationships that I knew from the jump weren’t serving me. There’s a lot that I still struggle to communicate, but these days I’m less likely to toss myself into the deep end with someone I don’t know how to talk to.
That said, there is a cyclical nature to how much I do or don’t relate to these old songs. Sometimes, I wind up in a new situation and think “damn, can’t believe I’m relating to a lyric I wrote at 17 or 18 again.” In Chit-Chat, I wrote the lyric “Do you remember being foolish, think it’s funny now? Looking back on how young and dumb we were? As if we won’t find somebody else and do it all over” and that one just keeps calling me out.
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